15 Questions with Ranger and Special Operations legend, Col. Keith Nightingale

With everything going on in Iraq and the Global War on Terror (GWoT), I wanted to get the impressions of an expert whose opinion I trusted. So, I chose the finest officer and warrior (and my former commander) I've ever known, Colonel Keith Nightingale (Retired).

Background: Col. Nightingale is a retired Army Colonel who served two tours in Vietnam with Airborne and Ranger (American and Vietnamese) units. He commanded airborne battalions in both the 509th and the 82nd Airborne. He later commanded both the 1/75th Rangers and the Ranger Brigade. He was a member of the Iran rescue attempt in 1981 and served with several classified organizations. He was the assault force commander in both Grenada and Panama and managed the DOD Counter-drug support operations in Latin America. He has been a CNN analyst for several military actions, including the first Gulf War. He is currently the Corporate Vice President for International Business for a Fortune 500 company. And he picks great wine with dinner!

My interview with him is after the jump.

CopTheTruth (CTT): The president recently announced a troop surge to the tune of 20,000+ troops. Do you agree with his decision?

Col. Nightingale: I agree provided their application has been thought out (what will they be doing and why?) and their intent is to create the conditions for the Iraqi’s to fix their mess. Their use MUST come with clear quid pro quo’s from the GOI to take advantage of the conditions they (US forces) create. The Iraqi police and military must develop a secular-neutral agenda and the government must crackdown on the various militias.  A revenue sharing agreement must be reached with the Sunni’s. If Maliki isn’t willing to do this, the surge is a waste of talent.

CTT: What is your definition/vision of victory in Iraq? Is victory even possible there anymore?

Col. Nightingale: Victory is our ability to leave Iraq and have a government that can reasonably secure its interior and permit a reasonable democracy and open commerce to persevere.  This is possible-but only if the Iraqi government can enforce its authority over the various factions and internally compromise its agendas on behalf of Iraq as a whole.

CTT: Do you think the current rules of engagement (ROE's) in Iraq (for our troops) are appropriate for the current situation or should they be modified?

Col. Nightingale: The ROE is fine.  Small unit leadership is, as always, the key.  In every single instance of publicly known failures, there has been a sergeant in charge.  Concurrently, for every successful application of the ROE, an NCO was in charge.

CTT: You were Gen. (then 2Lt.) Petraeus in the 509th in Italy. What do you think of him taking over in Iraq? Is he the right man for the job?

Col. Nightingale: Dave is the best man we have bar none. He has a very open mind, is creative and not hampered by preconceived models.  He absolutely understands asymmetrical warfare which is what Iraq is all about. The issue is if the Iraqi’s can rise to the occasion and take advantage of the conditions he creates. In time, he will be the Chairman of the JCS and should be.

CTT: The president has set a deadline for the Iraqis to take over control of their country by November. Do you think that is reasonable and/or possible?

Col. Nightingale: November is realistically impossible but we will go through cosmetic formalities. By December, we should know if Gen Petraeus’ approach is working and if the Iraqi’s can work together. We will have a token pullout by then with major pullouts by June 2008. If the Iraqi’s can’t manage it by June 2008, they never will and we will retreat into some form of tri-partite federation.

CTT: What do you think will happen if the U.S. pulls out of Iraq before a stable government is in place? How will our allies like Britain and Australia react?

Col. Nightingale: The UK and Australia are staunch allies. If we bail without a good outcome in Iraq, it will be extremely embarrassing to all of us. We will not be able to count on them in the future which could be disasterous.

CTT: You were a war analyst for CNN. Do you think that the media has/is potrayed/ing the situation in Iraq fairly and accurately?

Col. Nightingale: No. The media is fixated on “if it bleeds, it leads” and pursuing editorial agendas.  The BBC is very balanced, CNN and the NYT are not.  McNeal-Lehrer Report is xlnt but you actually have to watch it and think-not strongpoints for our populace. 90% of Iraq is having a quality, productive experience, 10% is utter chaos. Guess what’s reported?

CTT: You served in Korea, what do you think of the current situation with the North Koreans?

Col. Nightingale: This is a strategic Kabuki dance and not a real threat.  The Chinese will not allow NK to get us to a point of warfare.

CTT: What about Syria and Iran? Should we engage them in dialog? Encourage the Saudis and Israelis to deal with it by force? Use our own military force?

Col. Nightingale: Politically, absent a major overt provocation, the U.S. cannot strike either Syria or Iran. If either does something stupid, bets are off and we could-depending on who is President. We have to engage both and insure we mean business.  However, the undercutting of the Administration in Iraq greatly reduces our leverage.

CTT: Do you think that the American people have the fortitude for a prolonged effort in the GWoT? Do you think that the average American understands what is at stake? Or how the Jihadists think and feel about us?

Col. Nightingale: No. I am pessimistic regarding our ability to do anything on a patient scale.  This is a very long term engagement and absent a major disaster/explosion/imposition, we will lose interest. Our people understand intuitively what’s at stake but forget without having blood spilled or significant inconveniences.

CTT: You do a lot of traveling around the world. How do people in other countries see America/Americans and our efforts in the GWoT?

Col. Nightingale: The largest single issue I perceive in my Middle East travels is the Israel-Palestine issue.  Until this is favorably resolved, no real progress will be achieved. Palestine must become a viable, independent nation before we can overcome our image in the region. Jimmy Carter was right but that’s not PC.

CTT: The Marines and Army have announced that they will significantly increase the size of their respective forces. Given the current situation in America, is that possible without a draft? Without lowering entrance requirements? Do you foresee a draft as inevitable?

Col. Nightingale: The suggested numbers are small enough that voluntarism can probably fill the void. On a personal basis, I strongly favor a universal draft where ever HS grad does 2 years of work for a National good-hospitals, forest service, Peace Corps, Military whatever. WE owe ourselves a lot, we should have a payback capability. I joined a draft army; it had a lot of positive benefits. I hate deferments and would support only very limited exemptions, college not being one.

CTT: Do you think that the suggestion that Special Operations Forces (SOF) forces take over the GWoT is the right one?

Col. Nightingale: GWOT is an all-encompassing issue. SOF must play a leading military part but certainly not alone. GWOT requires huge non-combat engagement-perception management, reconstruction, economic development, education, democratization, health care etc. as the foundations. When DOD is engaged, it is either because the plan has failed or force is necessary to establish developmental conditions. SOF is invaluable in strike ops as it is low profile, very surgical and can be well-focussed.

CTT: Do you agree/disagree with the opinion that we are already fully engaged in WWIII? Some epochal struggle that will effect the U.S./world for decades to come?

Col. Nightingale: Yes. GWOT is the warfare model for the foreseeable future. Our ability to fight successfully depends on the ability of our institutions to recognize this and move beyond their present force projection models. We must be able to competitively play in GWOT while retaining traditional capabilities to fight traditional nation-stated wars e.g. China.

CTT: What bit of advice would you give to the president as he considers the "big picture" of America's future as it pertains to terrorism?

Col. Nightingale: I believe the voters want a better strategy for Iraq, not a precipitate withdrawal as argued by the Dems. The “surge” provides that potential, but only if clearly utilized as a piece of assymetrical warfare and with milestones clearly outlined to the GOI. The GWOT is a long term proposition, the President must educate us and effectively communicate. We must be led as we will not blindly follow.

My sincere thanks to Col. Nightingale for taking the time to visit with me. It's not everyday that you get to visit with a true American hero.

Related posts on our military heroes:

• LEATHERNECKM31: Operation Red Wing
• BLACKFIVE: "HERO" - SEAL Lieutenant Mike Murphy Considered for MOH
• The Captain’s Journal » Hope and Brutality in Anbar
• Bill Roggio: Musa Qala and the NATO offensive
• Amy Proctor - LTG Petraeus Relinquishes Command at Leavenworth
• American Soldier: If I die in Iraq
• Gawfer: Wednesday Hero!
• Old War Dogs: Hope Rides Alone
• One Marine's View: TWO BAGS

Comments

[Ken Larson]

Your post has some excellent points. Here's some additional data:

The U.S. Department of Defense, headquartered in the Pentagon, is one of the most massive organizations on the planet, with net annual operating costs of $635 billion, assets worth $1.3 trillion, liabilities of $1.9 trillion and more that 2.9 million military and civilian personnel as of fiscal year 2005.

I am a 2 tour Vietnam Veteran who recently retired after 36 years of working in the Defense Industrial Complex on many of the weapons systems being used by our forces as we speak.

It is difficult to convey the complexity of the way DOD works to someone who has not experienced it. This is a massive machine with so many departments and so much beaurocracy that no president, including Bush totally understands it.

Presidents, Congressmen, Cabinet Members and Appointees project a knowledgeable demeanor but they are spouting what they are told by career people who never go away and who train their replacements carefully. These are military and civil servants with enormous collective power, armed with the Federal Acquisition Regulation, Defense Industrial Security Manuals, compartmentalized classification structures and "Rice Bowls" which are never mixed.

Our society has slowly given this power structure its momentum which is constant and extraordinarily tough to bend. The cost to the average American is exhorbitant in terms of real dollars and bad decisions. Every major power structure member in the Pentagon's many Washington Offices and Field locations in the US and Overseas has a counterpart in Defense Industry Corporate America. That collective body has undergone major consolidation in the last 10 years.

What used to be a broad base of competitive firms is now a few huge monoliths, such as Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and Boeing.

Government oversight committees are carefully stroked. Sam Nunn and others who were around for years in military and policy oversight roles have been cajoled, given into on occasion but kept in the dark about the real status of things until it is too late to do anything but what the establishment wants. This still continues - with increasing high technology and potential for abuse.

Please examine the following link to testimony given by Franklin C. Spinney before Congress in 2002. It provides very specific information from a whistle blower who is still blowing his whistle (Look him up in your browser and you get lots of feedback) Frank spent the same amount of time as I did in the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) but in government quarters. His job in government was a similar role to mine in defense companies. Frank's emphasis in this testimony is on the money the machine costs us. It is compelling and it is noteworthy that he was still a staff analyst at the Pentagon when he gave this speech. I still can't figure out how he got his superior's permission to say such blunt things. He was extremely highly respected and is now retired.

http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/spinney_testimony_060402.htm

The brick wall I often refer to is the Pentagon's own arrogance. It will implode by it's own volition, go broke, or so drastically let down the American people that it will fall in shambles. Rest assured the day of the implosion is coming. The machine is out of control.

If you are interested in a view of the inside of the Pentagon procurement process from Vietnam to Iraq please check the posting on this blog entitled, "Odyssey of Armaments"

http://rosecoveredglasses.blogspot.com/2006/11/odyssey-of-armaments.html

On the same subject, you may also be interested in the following sites from the "Project On Government Oversight", observing it's 25th Anniversary and from "Defense In the National Interest", inspired by Franklin Spinney and contributed to by active/reserve, former, or retired military personnel. More facts on the Military Industrial Complex can be gleaned from "The Dissident" link, also posted below:

http://pogo.org/

http://www.d-n-i.net/top_level/about_us.htm

http://dissidentnews.wordpress.com/2007/01/30/the-military-industrial-complex-and-the-business-of-war/

[brenda]

By my own admission I am out of touch with the Iraq war. I have two nephews and a niece who have done at least one tour each. Shame on me for not paying attention! This article answered questions and gave me a better understanding of where we are and what we are still hoping to accomplish. Well done!

[The Fish]

I just found your blog~~ well done!

[Flag Gazer]

Thank you for this interview. It is good to hear this from someone who understands what he is talking about.

[Lisa]

My concern is that the Iraqi people simply don't want this enough to make the sacrifices needed to assist in this war. We have men and women who have sacrificed their lives for the freedom of these people... It's time they step up to the plate... NOW.

[Papa Ray]

First, thanks Ken for the links, I have read one or two before you posted, but I am only one of a very few that have.

Your right that it is all about to implode.

Next, thanks for this interview, it helps to see that someone of this Officers character and experience believes the same as the group of vets I hang with and myself do.

This is one of the kickers:

"The Iraqi police and military must develop a secular-neutral agenda and the government must crackdown on the various militias"

This could take years and we don't have years. The IA and the Police (both National and Local) are so polluted with militia and corruption and just plain criminals that they are more a part of the problem than they are the fix for it.

Also, as I think most people are starting to understand, politics in Iraq (in the ME) is nothing more than an extention of tribal and sect law, or I might say lawlessness.

If we can manage to maintain two or so Mega-Bases in Iraq without having to kill hundreds each month, I think we can call this battle (not a war) a win. That and keeping the oil flowing for at least the next 20 or so years.

Thanks again.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

[Thom]

I served with Colo. N. in the 75th. I agree he's the best.

[Eric]

CTT: “My interview with him is after the jump” My question for CTT is which jump you were referring to. The 509th into Iraq?

I was surprised with the colonel’s comments on ROE. Personally, I had thought that the current ROE were not aggressive enough, but he surely knows more about it than I do.

Col. Nightingale: “90% of Iraq is having a quality, productive experience, 10% is utter chaos. Guess what’s reported?" [by CNN] Thank you, Colonel! I too, detest CNN, but would have liked to know your opinions of FOX. Perhaps I should pay more attention to the BBC

I also would support a mandatory draft for all teens out of high school. As the Colonel suggested, there are many ways to serve this great country of ours in addition to the military: Red Cross, VA, police, fire, as well as those that were suggested. Two years in any of these is a small price to pay for our freedom. Perhaps this would also bring some cohesion to the country.

I believe the colonel’s advice to the president is right on target, and I hope that the president has planned for that. I fully support our president. While he has made mistakes, he has truly had a lot dumped on his plate after he took office. I believe he is still the right man for the job. Let’s get every single soldier we need in Iraq… 20,000 or 50,000… whatever it takes. Let’s get the job done and get the hell out of there. The Iraqi police, army and government need to step-it-up (now) or watch it all deteriorate. Those of us who have been patient with Iraq are losing it. Its time for Iraq to step up to the plate.

Thanks, CTT. Great piece. Thank you, too, Colonel.

[Kelly]

Excellent interview Mike. I especially liked his suggestion of every HS grad doing some sort of volunteer work for the country.

What an asset he is to our country, thank Col. Nightingale for your service.

Yeah, and you too Mike.

[Mortarman11c]

The Colonel was my battalion commander when I was in B Co. 2/505th PIR. I'd follow him anywhere!! Hubba Hubba, On to Moscow!!!!

[CopTheTruth]

I completely agree. The Cabbage Patch kids were the best! Thanks for reading, Big Al!

[Jim]

We went into Iraq based on lies. We've pretty much destroyed the country. We have created more terrorism than we are preventing. We have killed thousands of Iraqi civilians. We have killed thousands of young Americans. We have alienated our allies and most of the rest of the world. We have destabilized the middle east.

You supporters of this war and this president have a lot to answer for. You are going to be held accountable in the years to come. The country is paying for your mistakes.

[Cop The Truth]

It's funny how your "we" changed to "you" halfway through your rant. Typical left-winger. Thanks for commenting.

[Andrew J Aguirre]

Then LTC Keith M. Nightingale pinned the CIB on my pocket flap at Ft Bragg ,NC on 15 Dec 83 and our Plt Ldr SSG Roderick O Williams; we pinnned our squad leaders and they pinned the grunts; an honor to be led in combat by LTC Nightingale and Maj Mike Canavan; later Gen Canavan during Grenada operations.

[Mike]

He was the best I ever served with, Andrew. And it's an honor to now conisder him a friend.